What follows is a selection of some of the emails with my replies over recent weeks

What follows is a selection of some of the emails with my replies over recent weeks. There's plenty more but these are fairly representative. One thing is consistent: furniture resellers are not taking the trouble to learn about the product they are selling (or maybe they don't want to know). Who will be the first to write with a good news tale??? I will very happily publish it.

I have deleted surnames to protect correspondents' privacy. Should you decide to write please say if you would rather not be published. I will certainly respect those wishes.

That is a most interesting and informative piece of information on your website. I'm so pleased to have found it. A fellow NZ er myself I thought the only dilemma we met was bull about split or whole hides but I can see that with foreign imports the confusion goes a great deal further.

I may not have confronted this problem because I have made a complete commitment to buying Aussie or NZ made depending on which of the 2 countries I am in at the time. I think you are saying that those listed as good old Kiwi leather merchants are the way to go.

Anyway, I have taken note of the NZ companies you suggest as appropriate and I DO agree that paying a little more is the best way to go. I did not know about the 10-year guarantee on the frame but that is something else thanks to you I am now able to arm myself with.

PHILLIPA

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from presumably an American correspondent:

Your website hit the nail on the head. I'm looking to furnish a new
apartment and went shopping on e-bay for a "leather chair". I found a
good-looking chair ("100% Premier Bi-cast ( Old World ) Classic Leather" -
link attached) but before plunging in, I decided to do a
little research into "bi-cast leather" - exactly as you mention on you site
- and you saved me from making a big mistake.

So a big thank you Mr. Stevens! Keep up the good work.

John Schuett
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Thanks so much for your web page. I almost bought a bi-cast leather suite in a large well known store in downtown Toronto. It was a manager’s special price with added 10% discount. The sign stated that it was a leather couch and chair and as the salesperson could not give me the details of its quality I decided to check the internet for information. The couch was selling for $1,299 and the Chair for $899 Cdn.

I’m so glad I found your site and did not buy the set. I went back to the store the next day and told him what I had found out about it so that he would not get caught telling potential purchasers that it was in fact leather as stated on the sale price tag.

I am so pleased that you found the site helpful. I receive quite a number of emails like yours and I know many furniture sellers have been referred to the site and the opinions/information that you were guided by. But, as yet, still not a single one has challenged me on any one of the issues.

I have at least the satisfaction of knowing some potential buyers have been helped. Here in NZ, I,m glad to say that our Government has accepted my 'truths' and come out with a clear ruling on what may & what may not be labelled as 'leather'.

Believe me the pleasure is all mine……I would have bought the set and never been the wiser. I now know what to look for and won’t have a salesperson twist the truth as easily again.

I am exploring info on the web about leather ottomans with an interest
in purchasing one in the near future. Some of the terms I encountered
left me quite confused so I started to look for definitions and your web
site appeared. How helpful it has been and I wanted to thank you. I
will, no doubt, be a much wiser buyer when I finally make a purchase.

was considering purchasing a sofa and side chair advertised as "bi-cast". I did a search of the words on the internet and found your article.
Thank you for the quick but accurate education on "bi-cast". I decided not to purchase the sofa and side chair since I prefer to have these pieces last longer than 12 months, even 24 months if I didn't have many guests. :)

Thank you!!!
Diane
Mandeville, Louisiana USA

It was reported to me recently from a correspondent in Washington State that she had purchased a setting from Ashley Furniture who (the purchaser that is), after reading my description, attempted to return it to the store. They told her that they knew it was a mixture of leather & synthetic but insisted they could still describe it as 100% leather and were therefore not obliged to credit/refund. Its a funny form of logic to my way of thinking!

I enjoyed reading your article on leather and the pit falls of buying bi cast products. My company own an exporting licence from

China

and are about to embark on a new furniture range. We have brought in outdoor furniture and banquet chairs before but had a better knowledge of those ourselves. I was just wondering what is the minimum depth or quality I should be looking to get on “leather” sofas and chairs. I will be importing to the U.K and

Ireland

so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Great site, it’s a credit to you.

The conundrum, as I point out, is that if the product complies with the 1983 recommendation of the International Council of Tanners of a maximum .15mm non-leather surface coat then it can be described as leather. But as our tests have shown this means a product with very limited wearing properties.(We only tested a very small sampling of 'bi-casts' - seven if I recall correctly.) It is this ICT recommendation that the British Government took on board at that time but I strongly suspect that it is widely being ignored by importers/retailers as it was here in NZ.

As I have been advised by a member of the tanning industry here, the ruling was made with 'corrected' leathers in mind. In other words, the .15mm was to allow the repair, pigmenting & polymer protection of the top grain; it was not envisaged that the third or fourth split, or reconstituted scrap leather, would form the base. As these bases have no inherent wearing characteristics, a very thin top layer of pu is hardly going to satisfy day to day family use.

I do suggest that you have an analysis of the bi-cast before launching into anything major. The method used in our own lab tests was examination of images at 80x magnification. The results, which I have attached, are very self-apparent. The first example was on the covering on chairs from Sedia Italia and the second from chairs out of China . Both were being sold as 'genuine leather'.

Beyond this I can not be of much help. My bias is I think apparent. I have no problem with imitation leather; I do when it is being sold as leather & I do when it is being sold with virtues that exceed the real thing as, for example, JC Penney.

I would be interested to hear how your own thinking develops & what your ultimate decision is. You no doubt noticed the observations to shareholders of collapsed company Harvey 's in the UK where they anticipate the eventuality of product recalls of all bi-cast product sold (not even possibility - very much more definite).

kind regards,

Hello Richard,

My apologies for the delay in replying to your message. Thank you so much for the information. I appreciate the effort you put in your response and it has helped build my knowledge on leather. I’m still trying to be able to distinguish between the different types in a furniture outlet. I find that sales staffs are not up to date themselves and I end up preaching to them about leather and different types of wood used in furniture. It’s disappointing to think that owners of these organisations can’t put them through a course so they can learn everything and help consumers more but that’s life I guess. I read you should check underneath sofa’s to see if it’s dyed all the way through when checking leather. If there is white gauze backing its vinyl? Anyway, I’m picking up as I go along, but wanted to let you know that information off your website and reply to e-mail has helped me a lot. Many thanks and best of luck in your business, I’ll plug your site whenever I can,

Yours in Business,

************************************************************************
Correspondence with two USA writers:

I read your article after placing an order for a mission chair of "bi-cast"
leather from JC Penney.... on sale. I am now questioning myself for
researching the product later rather than before. It is not expensive,
however, I am concerned because of being led to believe bi-cast was very
durable and would withstand wear. Obviously, you have researched this topic
extremely well and thorough. Have you gathered any additional information
since the posting of your webpage?

With much respect,
Cheryl

Hello Cheryl,

The following is a reply to a similar enquiry but the enquirer also asked
about what she could do to increase the lifespan of the chair.

I also sent a test report but this only detailed the composition of the
'leather' samples; it did not test performance.

Until such time as wear test results are published I can't really give any
further informed opinion.

kind regards,

Richard Stevens,

Hello Nancy,

I've had a lot of emails such as yours from the USA.

Like you I have no problem with imitations - as long as that is how they are
sold.

I do have a problem with the excessive claims being made, particularly in
your part of the world, for the hard wearing capabilities of 'bi-cast'. Our
tests have certainly not supported these claims &, as I say on my site, not
one contradictory viewpoint has yet been made. In view of the enormity of
the size of the market for these products, I think it staggering that no
scientific wear tests have been done, such as is done with ALL other fabric
types.

Whilst I obviously cannot draw any universal conclusions with respect to the
wearing qualities of every type of bi-cast, my only suggestion to improve
the longevity of your chair is not to sit on it! If in fact it is imitation
through & through then it will likely last very well. However, as with all
vinyls/polyurethanes regular cleaning with a damp cloth is the only method
of maximizing wear.

You may be interested in the attachment. It shows two "leather" samples from
chairs, one from Italy & the second from China. (You will need Acrobat
Reader to view it - just click on the attachment box above)

Sorry not to be more helpful.

and Nancy's original enquiry:

I'm a little nervous, now, after reading your information. I thought I had researched the leather terms and jargon and I bought a "bi cast leather" chair anyway, believing that it was still "leather" and had all the attributes, etc. as you mentioned on your web-site.

So my question is: Now that I have these pieces - chair and ottoman- are there any treatments or special care that I can use to lengthen the longevity and improve wear? I just purchased these pieces three weeks ago and I don't mind that it's not authentic. But I do care about the wear of the product. I stumbled upon your sight looking for care instructions.

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from Hilary also USA

Just wanted to let you know how helpful your info is, especially the facts about bi-cast leather. I'm shopping for a leather living-room set (in the U.S.) and, until today, I had no idea what bi-cast "leather" was. I googled the term and only had to read about 9 random words on your page before coming to the obvious conclusion that I could have made a drastic mistake!

I'll read the whole page before even considering a piece of leather furniture. Thank you so much!

Am pleased you found the site & the information of help. The site is attracting a large number of visits but not one defender of the 'bi-cast' product. Any other-man made upholstery material comes with performance tests, such as the Martindale rub test. Despite my challenges, no evidence of any such test(s) have been supplied or has there been any contradiction to my own tests.

Henry

and I replied:

I am pleased you found the leather explanations informative.

You might gather from the tone of my ranting that I am rather emotional about the issue. My only surprise is the widespread apathy by my fellow furniture merchants. I think if the public were better informed they would be sympathetic to my way of thinking.

Thank you for taking the time to pass on your thoughts.

****************************************************************************************************************

>>Hi ,
>>
>>I live in Scotland and read with interest the articles referring to bi
>>cast materials. In June 2004 I purchased a 2 seater and one 3 seater
>>settee from a reputable furniture supplier . At the time I was advised
>>that the product which I was interested in was a high quality, durable
>>and virtually maintenance free leather and only required cleaning using
>>standard leather care products .I also took out a full 5 year warranty
>>on the product .In December 2005 I noticed that the top layer of one of
>>the cushions was beginning to peal off. On contacting the warranty
>>people they would have nothing to with my claim.and insisted based on my
>>description via a telephone call that it was manufacturing defect .I
>>contacted the supplier who inspected the settee and has reported back
>>that in there opinion it was not a manufacturing defect despite the
>>inspector indicating to me that it was possible that the bonding process
>>may not have taken at the time of manufacture . I am now left in Limbo
>>with no one accepting responsibility .This was the first time I became
>>aware that my purchase was not a full leather product .
>>I am in the process of taking this matter to Trading Standards . Do you
>>have any information which would assist me in this matter i.e test cases
>>of a similar nature ( top layer pealing off or more info on the Courts
>>Harvey's) situation . Are there any test reports on this material or
>>consumer reports which show high incidents of a similar nature .
>>
>>
>>I know it may be a long shot in asking if you can assist me but there is
>>very little information available in the U.K
>>
>>Many thanks ,
>>
I replied

Hello Billy,
>
>I doubt that I can be of much help.
>
>The tests that I have done relate to product description, ie. 'bi cast'
>being sold as 'leather' when analysis has shown that it clearly is not. One
>Korean manufacturer (who used to claim that they had pioneered the
>technology - they no longer do) claims their product meets all abrasion etc.
>tests, see http://www.sslea.co.kr/ but makes only one specific claim with
>respect to 'bending'.
>
>Because the surface is not leather, it is quite possible that the use of
>leather care products could have added to the problem. You could contact a
>UK source for these products, email address: pparkinson@ndirect.co.uk.
>Alternatively, check with the supplier on the product you have used.
>
>Not one supplier of bi-cast leather products (retailer or manufacturer) has
>come to its defence despite my challenges. And they must be aware. I have
>received numerous emails from unhappy purchasers, some of whom have returned
>the goods and been given refunds. I believe this is exactly what you should
>be entitled to. It is quite possible that at the time the sofas were sold to
>you, the retailer was not aware of the nature of the 'leather' involved. I
>hardly think that that can be an excuse. I first became suspicious about
>three years ago because of the low purchase cost; it simply didn't add up so
>I declined to sell 'bi-cast' in any form. Only when I saw so much being
>advertised and the repeated urging of one particular importer to cash in on
>the huge profits everyone else was making that I decided to have it tested.
>The results came as no surprise and it was then that I made the issue public
>through our main TV channel.
>
>I cannot believe your Government does not have consumer protection
>legislation similar to our Fair Trading Act which would forbid any trader to
>contract out of product warranty.
>
>My advice would be to contact your local MP & kick up merry hell. Refer
>him/her to my site and to our own Commerce Commission which is part of the
>Consumer Affairs division of our government's Trade & Industry Department.
>
>Also, is 'Which' still in existence? Or some other consumer protection
>organisation. It would certainly pay to make contact. And why not write to
>your local paper. They may not allow the reseller to be named but spell out
>the problem and the response; you could threaten the reseller with exposure
>and see what his response is.
>
>One thing is certain, the problem (with the furniture) cannot be rectified and will only get
>worse. It could be a problem with the adhesives or it could be a problem
>with the total incompatibility of the synthetic surface (polyurethane which
>is very flexible & heat resistant) with the backing (if it is a leather
>bi-product ie. suede which is neither). In the case of the latter it is
>possible that the suede is drying out and causing delamination. A similar
>problem existed back in the 1970's with a product called "Vistrom". This, as
>far as I recall, was a polyurethane faced cloth which had a woven backing
>and the adhesive was only compatible with non-porous materials. It became a
>massive international problem for the manufacturer when delamination
>occurred.
>
>Good luck with whatever action you decide to take.

Billy replied:
>Hi Richard ,

Many thanks for your e-mail and very helpful information .I have put
together a letter to Trading Standards and the warranty company
concerned . I am also in the process of getting an independent
assessment of the settee and hopefully I will manage to get the matter
resolved . But somehow I think its going to be a long hall .Again many
thanks and I will keep you informed ,

Cheers,

I was looking for leather furniture and was referred to the JcPenny website as they had a set on sale with solid wood frames. The description was of bi-cast leather. The use of the word bi-cast and the cheap price made me research this term. Thank goodness for the internet and thank goodness for your website. You have saved me from making a huge mistake. What really gripes me is that the term is deliberately coined to deceive and fool the consumer into thinking they are getting something they are not. Good thing that in NZ that bi-cast is not allowed to be called leather. Unfortunately, here in the states, many uneducated people will be fooled into thinking that their newly bought 'bi-cast' leather is the real thing. Again, thank you for taking the time to research this subject and for making it available to us all on the internet via your website.

Regards, Mark

My reply:

Just wanted to thank you for the information on your website... am
looking at buying a leather suite and was advised by a friend "to make
sure it wasn't split leather". Having no idea what that was I did a
Google search and found your fantastic site. Much more confident now
that I can ask the right questions and won't be spending my
hard-earned cash on rubbish.

Thanks again

--
sandie

Am pleased you found the info helpful. Knowing the questions to ask does not
unfortunately guarantee you will get the right answers. Best of luck & if I
can be of help in any way do let me know.

If you have an experience to share please let me know on info@mainlychairs.co.nz